Saturday, January 9, 2010

Angel is Twilight

This shit is ridiculous.

I know Joss loves shocking his fans/viewers/readers, I know he loves an unexpected cliffhanger, an unpredictable reveal, but this doesn't work for me.

Sure, I didn't expect or predict that Angel was the masked villain acting as Buffy's "Big Bad" for the past four years, but that's's stupid and doesn't make sense.

Let's count the ways this is retarded:

1. In his own series, and then his own canonical comic book continuation of his series, Angel and the city he protects, LA, went to Hell. Or became Hell. Or just became more blatantly evil, with demons fighting over territory, dead allies returning, old friends turned into vampires, and Angel himself turned into a human; the one thing he always fantasized about most, at the worst time possible. Somehow, with his son and warrior friends, he reversed the whole Hell thing Wolfram & Hart unleashed, and set up shop in his old HQ, that Hyperion Hotel from the mid-to-late seasons of the show (halcyon days, except for the disastrous Season 4.) The point is he's been pretty damn busy. Dying, living, saving, fighting, moralizing, avenging, etc. etc. Far too busy to assemble an army of sexist American military men looking to kill young superpowered women. Far too busy to recruit old personal enemies of the woman he loves and sic them on her and her allies. Far too busy to use her other ex-boyfriend as a spy slash weapon. In short, where the hell did he find the time to be Twilight?

2. Angel isn't evil. Sure, that isn't a blanket statement that applies to him at all times, historically, but for the overwhelming majority of the time Angel is as noble and moral and committed to the protection of innocents as Buffy...perhaps more so, as he has a guilty conscience and years of horrors he constantly tries to make amends for. And I can imagine Scott Allie and Joss' arguments here; who said Twilight was evil? "His aims are the same as Buffy. He seeks to protect humanity from the dangers of magic and the hellmouth." Albeit by eradicating magic, which he himself, far after parting ways with the Scooby Gang, used on a weekly basis to fight his own battles, and protect his city as well as his own people. Even as Twilight he uses magic to track the slayers, and his involvement leads to the deaths of at least dozens of young girls and army soldiers alike. He. Has. Killed. People. That is not Angel. That's Angelus, and either they wrote him sloppily or they're retarded, cause Angelus is a character you'd recognize, whether or not it was in comic form.

3. Buffy didn't recognize him. She fought him. He beat the crap out of her (something Angel would never do, unless he had been turned evil or they were training, of course. But he wouldn't. He loves her.) And he also talked a hell of a lot. Said some nasty things, but the point is, they conversed heavily. Judging by Angel's briefly heard Irish accent, he's not very good at changing his voice. And this is the guy Buffy lost her V-card too, killed and sent to hell despite loving him more than anything, resurrected him with her love (unwittingly), dated him again, broke up, and then saved each others' lives a few times, laying the groundwork for a potential reunion years in the future. So now he puts on a mask and displays some new powers, and she can't recognize his voice? His build? His hints? ("I know that move" - because he saw her slice Caleb in half with it.)

4. He can fly. Buffy's got some thin plot twists to justify her new superpowers. But Angel, who has been magically multitasking between Los Angeles and Scotland, never could, and shouldn't be able to sans magic, which he is trying to end forever.

So, to be honest, I don't really believe it yet. They've officially confirmed the news, they've released cover pictures and Trade Paperback solicitations that show Angel, someone even changed Twilight's entire wikipedia page. But I don't buy it. Maybe Angel comes in as a character, which was never ruled out, just as Spike was never ruled out. Doesn't mean he's Twilight. His past with Buffy and place in her story is more than enough to merit him cover treatment and even the main story of an arc or two. Doesn't prove he's the villain of the piece.

And neither does the editors and writers and artists saying publicly and officially that he is least not for me.

Why must Joss cause me so much pain these days? Back when he wrote Buffy I felt pain, sure, whenever tragedy struck. But it was never for tragedy's sake. There was always a story, and I always felt it in equal parts with love for the show and characters. The comic has been flimsy, despite no one wanting it more than me. It has fumbled in the past year, and dragged on, saying little and stretching out a legacy and world that gave Joss all the attention and adoration he now enjoys, more for entertainment purposes it seems than the need to tell an actual meaningful story. Why did he have to stab that slayer in the chest? Why did he re-open the long dead romantic tension with Xander and Buffy? Why make Faith so boring and Buffy sexually experimental? Why build up a villain for so long, keeping it secret, and leaving so many plot holes and characteristics that make no sense and violate continuity? It sounds a lot like running out of ideas, but refusing to let go.

Sure the comics are pretty. And it's all Buffy. So of course I'm gonna keep buying it and reading it. But if Angel really is Twilight? If he's not even evil or manipulated, and its all some shades-of-grey saving-the-world-a-different-way rationalization? Then I might stop buying and reading. Well, no that's a total lie. But my own respect and adoration for Joss' and his work will most certainly continue its' steady and continuous descent.


  1. Time travel? The finale could be current Angel vs. Twilight Angel.

  2. Ha! I think I'd be alright with that. Would be fun to watch Spike playing both sides. Knowing Joss, thought, there might be some unfortunate plot device of sexual tension between Connor and Buffy...just cause nothing's sacred. Plus he already banged Cordy so...

    Gotta say like having Kate back in the comics. Hope the Willingham run goes well.

  3. The buffy comic started several years after they defeated the first, I heard, so time's passed, maybe he's done with things in LA.

  4. The only good things about this are the covers. They are beautiful! As such they are an omen to the doom of Buffy and Angel relationship. I will hate Joss forever and stop to read these damn comics if anything such as this get between my favorite couple ever. Yeah... it also doesn't make sense at all. Your points are just perfect, but my main plot holes are the fact that Buffy could feel Angel's presence... always.

  5. Seriously! There's probably gonna be some big-magic-spell-explanation to cover that up, but if they don't go so far as doing a whole Angel-is-possessed-by-some-even-bigger-bad-so-lets-save-him storyline and just do the shades-of-grey, whats the difference between a hero and a villain thing, I might vomit a little. He's (Joss) getting less original as time goes on, and yet dipping back into his greatest characters and relationships ever.

    But I do agree the covers are beautiful. Jo Chen is brilliant. Every time. And its so nice to see Angel like he used to look, not like the chubby goofy Bones douchebag guy he is now.

  6. It actually wasn't too hard to see this coming:

    1) The chin. The weakest of my supporitng arguments, but when Twilight lifted his mask to scratch his chin, it was drawn just like Angel's

    2) At the beginning of the Angel comics, Angel goes on a big rant about how sick he is of magic, and demons, and all that shit. Twilight's goal is to rid the world of magic, remember?

    3) Strongest, and pretty much irrefutable evidence. When Buffy first fought Twilight face to face, she tried the same cut-in-half-from-underneath-with-the-scythe move that she used to defeat Caleb back in season 7. Twilight blocks, saying "I know that move, slayer." Angel was the only person present when Buffy defeated Caleb. This is what did if for me (I called the whole Angel is Twilight thing last summer, when I first started reading the comics. I can forward you the email. But I won't).

    So, please, pick up your jaw. It's not that big of a shock, and certainly not a stretch.

  7. 1.) Sure, I guess it looks like his chin.

    2.) Don't recall that part of the Angel comics--they've left little impression on me actually. Plus, if Angel gets rid of magic, does that not include his curse and by extension his soul? Does that not include the happy memories he manufactured for Connor? Seems hugely self-defeating. He's the one who gave Buffy the weapon she needed to beat the First.

    3.) Your strongest point is moot. Angel was knocked out unconscious when Buffy finally cut Caleb in half. Sure he saw the body afterwards, but so did Spike as he skulked in the shadows and got taunted by the First. And anyone could have walked into that cemetery basement thing after the fact, especially if they were planning villainy against Buffy and watching her victories.

    I'm over the jaw drop, thanks for your concern, just don't like it. Add to the list of weak moves Joss has made since Buffy ended.

    Thanks for reading though.

  8. First, for all you people who are saying things about Buffy and Angel as a couple, they were unofficially over when they had sex and officially over at the end of season two. The last moment they had together was Joss's way of keeping fans on the fence with Angel or Spike. Everyone should know by now Buffy will forever be romantically alone, just like Ally McBeal.

    Second, I didn't see it coming but who cares. And for Captain Elias (the person that posted this) I DON'T consider you a Joss Whedon fan or a Buffy fan. If you were you'd realize Joss will have answers to the tie in with After the Fall, the fact that he's evil (although I don't think he's evil I just think he thinks the morals of slayers have changed to something that is wrong in his mind), Angel is known to be a great actor so of course Buffy didn't recognize him, There is a good chance after the Fall is a load of crap and even if it isn't we don't know what he's been doing since that time he could just have a rocket pack under the Twilight costume, and if you don't like the comics of season 8 please quit reading them because some of us do.

  9. Hey fuck off guy who posted right before me! The man has very valid points. Honestly I'm not shocked, Im pissed. Captain is right this shit doesn't make any sense. I thought After the Fall was a great series, I have always indentified most with Angel's quest for redemption and the depth of his character and thats what the series focused on. C!mon Angel, Twilight? Angel would never condone the death of innocents, EVER! No matter the objective or goal. This makes no sense and if it dosen't begin to the i might stop buying as well (well, okay maybe not) Nevertheless i don't like this or understand it. However If this ruins Angel's character or villifies him then... well i might just be done.

  10. BTW Buffy and Angel officially over and the end of season three. S3E20 "The Prom"

  11. Can't we all just get along...and wait for the end of the twilight run/buffy season 8 to see how it all pans out and what excuses/reasons/yadda yadda they are going to use to tie this all together? Its a shock that Angel is Twilight. BUT, easy to get over considering we've seen him as the "Big Bad" before. But like Joss and Georges Jeanty said...we dont' know all the reasons why and how and maybe we should let them tie it all together before deciding that it makes no sense. Because right now, your right, it doesn't, but maybe...just maybe in the end it will.

  12. We may have seen Angelus as Big Bad before but if you watched the 5 series of Angel's own series, and the fantastic After the Fall Series, you would see that Angel has developed in ways that make him appearing as Twilight stupid. It just seems like Joss is forgetting everything Angel has done and been through to scrape the Buffy/Angel barrel again. Let's face it, there is no story in the Buffyverse as poignant, heartbreaking or famous as Buffy falling for Angel who loses his soul and tries to end the world. Just seems like Joss is going back there again. It also seems like he is trying to get rid of Angel for good to make room for the other vamp with a soul, Spike.

  13. It makes a lot of sense, actually.

    1) We know that there was a big battle that banished all magic, along with Buffy, from Joss's 'Fray' mini-series. This took all the evil things from the world.

    2) In Angel's 'After the Fall' mini-series, we find out that it's Angel, not Angelus, that would eventually carry out Wolfram and Hart's part in the apocalypse.

    3) In Angel, season five, Andrew and an army of slayers basically out-muscle the scariest law-firm/group of evil-doers on the planet into giving up an insane slayer. This shows that they have no respect for the law, anymore, further backed-up by Buffy's actions prior to season eight (robbery) and the group of rogue slayers.

    4) It has been stated, multiple times, that the Buffyverse exists within a reality defined by balance. Look at the Angel episode, 'The Price', in which Angel's attempts to get Connor back nearly result in (a) the death of his friends, and (b) a potential global apocalypse thanks to water demons. Given that, it's not too much of a strecth to suggest that Buffy's trick of empowering ALL the slayers will come with an eventual greater price.

    5) Given his history with Buffy, but the need to stop the slayers and the unleashing of unstoppable evil to balance out the rise of the slayers, it's understanable that Angel would not want anyone to know who he really was.

    6) The time-line issues are simple - Buffy Season 8 takes place about two years after the events of Season 7. So that is a year after Angel and L.A. got sent to Hell - technically, they were in Hell for moments of our reality, hence why people don't spend their time going, "Hey, remember that time L.A. vanished for a year?" It also explains Harmony's rise to power as the residual fallout of the love Angel received post "After the Fall".

    7) Angel is inherantly good, except when he is Angelus? Tell that to Wesley, whilst Angel was strangling him to death in his hospital bed. That was because Wesley cost Angel his son. Now imagine if the balancing of the slayers power unleashes something worse... or if the slayers are that something worse... That's the end of everything Angel has fought for. How much of a motivation would that be?

    8) The absence of Angel's supporting cast? Well, Connor has a serious slayer-crush, we saw that when he met Faith. Spike would call him insane for siding against Buffy. Those two are the leaders/alpha-males in Angel's absence - most of the other characters would fall in line behind them.

    9) The army shacking up with Angel? Well, he's an L.A. celebrity who made Orpheus look like a chump by bringing an ENTIRE CITY back from Hell, and causing the foremost evil in our reality to leave in one fell swoop. Plus, as season four of Buffy made clear, The Initiative were well aware of who Angel/Angleus is/was.

    10) The voice thing is clearly laid out in the series itself. Whenever speaking with Buffy, the font changes - hence, his voice is meant to be otherwordly, or different. Even the editor confirmed that days after this was announced.

    11) The most important fact... HIS NAME IS TWILIGHT! If that isn't a dig at those Mormon sparkly, supervampire romantics, what is?

    Oh, and a plot hole can only be decided by consensus when the story is finished. If the explanation is unsatisfying with obvious mistakes in logic, that's a plot hole. Something you find personally unsatisfying is just something you don't like.

  14. Giving it even more thought, there are even more reasons why Angel could be logically portrayed as this kind of morally dubious character that logically represents the Twilight of the Slayers:

    1) He, whilst still ensouled, locked Darla and Drusilla in a basement with a lot of human lawyers.

    2) If anything happened to Connor, it could conceivably end up with him taking this route, e.g. Eve tracking down Connor and killing him to get revenge on Angel.

    3) Have we actually ruled out Wolfram and Hart's involvement?

    4) Wasn't the power Buffy unleashed confined to a single weapon? If those who created the weapon had the ability to empower so many people, why didn't they do it?

    5) Isn't this the first vampire antagonist the series has had since season two? Kind of sparse given the show is about a 'vampire' slayer.

    6) Who connects Warren, Amy and Riley outside of the slayer inner-circle?

    7) This is more of something you may not have thought of - if Angel is the big bad, and the Fang Gang are out of action... Doesn't that mean we could see the return of an old favorite, sadly missing from this season?

    SPIKE! We need his brand of seeing through the B.S. as it is one thing Buffy has been needing for most of the story. Plus, it's the reason why Spike couldn't have been Twilight - both him and Cordelia were in the cast to say the things that needed to be said, and no-one else would admit to. He would've just gone up to Buffy and tried to persuade her. Plus, his absence suggests something happened with him and Angel...

  15. Oh, btw, as for the rights issue - I'm sure Angel would have been sold as a supporting character to Dark Horse in the original Buffy package. This would also explain the lack of Angel supporting characters, or a lawsuit by IDW.

  16. Also, doesn't Dawn hint at something even worse coming? "We always end up fighting bigger monsters."

  17. "Let's count the ways this is retarded:"

    Lmao...I was so excited to see you say that because I agree completely.

    Huge Buffy fan...but the comic has done little to hold my interest. Admittedly I still get it in the mail every month and rip it open, as I have done from the first issue, because I will always have a soft spot in my heart for her, whether I'm going on 28 or not. But I mean...I basically read it in a very cursory way, just hoping for *something* that will make it good again. Every month. It's been a long time to hope.

    And like many Buffy fans, I'm sure, I'm happy to see Angel back. But this is completely wrong and a huge bump in the road. Ugh. There is just no way to count. I think we could get up to 5,256 and still not be done counting the ways of retardation that this is. Yeah.


  18. You know, he says he's not Angelus, but he calls her "Buff." Season 3, when he pretends th ebe Angelus to trick Faith he calls Buffy "Buff" and she says he only called her that when he was evil . . .

  19. I know this is very unlikely since Angel has an ongoing series, but I hope this ties up the Shanshu prophecy with Angel inadvertantly causing the Apocalypse since this would tie Wolfram & Hart into the story and maybe even Spike.
    This is all leading to the end of Season 8 and it would really be a climactic end if Buffy, Angel and Spike defeat Wolfram & Hart and save the world from the Apocolypse and Angel fullfills the prophecy that he will turn human resulting with him reuniting with Buffy in the Buffy series where his story began. I am sure there are a million reasons this would not work but it would be awesome if Joss Whedon could some how make it work.
    But that's just me.

  20. I'm really trying to feel like I shouldn't have started to read the comics. Buffy the show never reached that point where it actually sucked, and I was so happy about that, but COME *THE* FUCK ON, how can Twilight be Angel?! I genuinely think they just ran out of ideas or something, because this is painfully stupid and unlike Joss. Remember the way he beat her up? Angel would be freakin' crying throughout the whole thing if he had to hurt her like that. I mean, DAMMIT, couldn't they whip some stuff up and do something that made a tiny smidgen of sense?
    Good entry. Agree with you on everything on there.

  21. I am twilight not angel I work in subway, buy the $5 footlongs please

  22. I read 32-33 today. Man! Angel became a douchebag! Dean Winchester would be so happy! Faith was right back in S3 when he was talking to her about killing someone and she said he needed professional help. He needs! He, in possession of his soul, killed people before, but at least we had the comfort that he did out of his mind (W&H people x Darla and Dru) or he didn't have other choice (Drogyn and Fred), but now... he KILLED when he could have avoided it all... and he beat Faith... I mean, he'd beat Buffy (he did, huh)... but I can't see Angel beating Faith. Right now Angel is a fucking delusional bastard. It is horrible that in the end both man she loved, one lover and the other father, lied to her about something important. But then, he was stupid enough to follow the stupid vision Cordy gave him and sent the whole LA to hell just because of his personal vendetta against W&H... even though he gave his friends a choice he didn't give Buffy because he talked to them about it all. I wonder how the LA population would feel if they knew it. Seriously, no excuse give redemption. As of now... I really hope that the signing way his shanshu he did in S5 can hold because he sooooooooo doesn't deserve to be a human being... EVER AGAIN!!!

  23. "The timelines don't overlap yet," said Allie. "The 'Angel' series at IDW picks up at end of 'Angel' television series, but 'Buffy: Season Eight' started up a significant amount of time after the television series ended."

  24. 1. At the end of After the Fall, time was reversed and they were returned to the day before LA fell. Therefore, no time had passed and that means Angel has a lot of time to catch up to Buffy's comic.

    2. Angel has killed innocent people already. Remember Drogyn? He's clearly moved towards a grey area ever since he went to Wolfram and Hart. He has adopted the mentality that the end justifies the means. Also, it's explained his actions as Twilight were done because Whistler told him it was the only way for Buffy to live, and that is completely within his character.

    3. As for the argument that Angel's new powers are unprecedented and that Buffy should have recognized him, we should at least wait for the next Angel series to attempt to explain this. If we are so willing to accept that Angel was suddenly turned human (As well as Gunn) why is it hard to believe that Angel can acquire new powers? Dracula is one example of a vampire with extra powers, and Angel could at least be considered his peer. Also, a simple voice changing spell would be easy for Angel if he's already gone to the trouble of masking himself.

  25. Honestly I don't know why you wasted your time writing this, I mean, you said it's ridiculous, so..??? Everybody thinks the same so, you didn't have to waste your time publishing this crap.

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  37. Wait so nobody got the part where (spoilers) he's being influenced by some weird other worldly power from a dimension yet to be birthed? Or the part where Spike's word actually makes things happen in the Angel books and after the Hell Moment he literally says "Angel is a bad guy with a stupid name and agenda that makes no sense.", pretty much all for the sake of being a pouty pete about Angel again?

    Granted, these ideas ARE insane, which I get was the point of the article, but they far from lowered my opinion of Joss and his storytelling. So far the comics have entertained me, albeit differently from the shows, which are easily more established canon to be sure. But characters changing, becoming mopey and boring, or sexually exploratory, or possessed by weird demon lion thingees is par for the course with these guys. I respect your opinion, but in mine, it was an interesting, weird ride that I hope to see continue into a more "usual" Buffy storyline with Season 9 and the (again spoilers briefly) lack of magics.

    In the end, this is about Angel though. Final word from me, is that he was evil, but obviously not soulless evil. There was a strange type of residual magic left over both from LA and from the thing to be born of Buffy and Angel cosmic boning, etc etc. The new Angel and Faith book looks great. Two mopey dark avengers killing stuff, waxing poetic (even if badly!), and trying to bring back a dead lead Buffy character sounds awesome to me. I've yet to read either of the new books though, so I can't say for sure. Hang in there and hope you enjoy the new, more toned down stuff. I can totally get why people would think Season 8 went friggin over the top. But for me, it has it's moments. ~Joe

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